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	<title>Comments on: Why China Will Boom During the 2009 Great American Depression</title>
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	<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Carson Block</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23300</link>
		<dc:creator>Carson Block</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html#comment-23300</guid>
		<description>The biggest thing that China has going for it now is its dysfunctional banking system. Chinese bankers' inability to stop lending will enable China to escape the credit crunch. The liquidity that China will pump into the system may even (contrary to many expectations) cause prices of real estate - and possibly even equities - to rise at some point. However, the PBOC will intend for a large portion of this liquidity to stimulate consumer buying in an effort to take up some of the slack for for decreased exports. But, Jonathan Andersen, chief China economist at UBS, estimates that China's core "consumption" class is only 25 million people (as compared to the 600 million+ consumers in China's core export markets). Assuming Mr. Andersen's estimates are close to correct, the math does not look good.

Based on the foregoing, factory production will decrease to a large extent. That means that many factory workers will be unemployed - this could lead to social stability issues. Urbanites should be more worried about whether construction workers are being paid though.

The $700 billion question is: To what extent will these economic events affect China's middle classes? Are they somewhat insulated from the woes of the factory owners and workers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The biggest thing that China has going for it now is its dysfunctional banking system. Chinese bankers&#8217; inability to stop lending will enable China to escape the credit crunch. The liquidity that China will pump into the system may even (contrary to many expectations) cause prices of real estate - and possibly even equities - to rise at some point. However, the PBOC will intend for a large portion of this liquidity to stimulate consumer buying in an effort to take up some of the slack for for decreased exports. But, Jonathan Andersen, chief China economist at UBS, estimates that China&#8217;s core &#8220;consumption&#8221; class is only 25 million people (as compared to the 600 million+ consumers in China&#8217;s core export markets). Assuming Mr. Andersen&#8217;s estimates are close to correct, the math does not look good.</p>
<p>Based on the foregoing, factory production will decrease to a large extent. That means that many factory workers will be unemployed - this could lead to social stability issues. Urbanites should be more worried about whether construction workers are being paid though.</p>
<p>The $700 billion question is: To what extent will these economic events affect China&#8217;s middle classes? Are they somewhat insulated from the woes of the factory owners and workers?</p>
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		<title>By: JCS</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23294</link>
		<dc:creator>JCS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 18:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html#comment-23294</guid>
		<description>This kind of reporting borders on Sinophilia (or is it just giddiness over the perceived destruction of American hegemony?). First of all, the article is no longer timely and really shouldn't be circulated as "news" (courtesy of China Briefing) at this juncture, given what has developed over the last week. The U.S. Congress did indeed approve the bailout/rescue package and we've seen over the last couple of days just how interconnected the world financial system is (if there was ever any doubt). Most of Asia is not insulated from the woes on the other side of the Pacific -- as 8-10% single-day market losses clearly demonstrate.

While it is true that China is somewhat protected from market shocks, let's not forget that it essentially faces the same problem as most of Asia in that its growth is export-led. Devonshire completely glosses over this fact, exaggerating the extent to which China is a consumption-driven economy. Sure, consumerism is growing in leaps and bounds, but the actual growth generated from domestic sales pales in comparison to that generated from exports. The balance of payments problem clearly supports this fact. Consider that a behemoth like Wal-Mart exclusively sources in China. If Americans are forced to wean themselves  from their addiction to cheap consumer goods, things could get scary for China, too, in a hurry. (This fear is largely what drove the markets down in Japan, for example, except that Japan's wares -- electronics, cars, etc. -- are a step up on the value chain.) There is no way the (nascent) demand in emerging markets could make up for a loss of this scale.

Lastly, I think it is a mistake to forget about China's structural problems, which are real, and not likely to be resolved anytime soon. I was never a disciple of Gordon Chang's, even when his work was more relevant than it is now, but on the other hand, many of the ills that existed a decade ago are alive and well today. To their credit, China's present leaders are not in denial about these challenges; but will they be successful in resolving them?

Viewing the world economy as a zero-sum game (America loses, China wins) is, I think, naive to say the least.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of reporting borders on Sinophilia (or is it just giddiness over the perceived destruction of American hegemony?). First of all, the article is no longer timely and really shouldn&#8217;t be circulated as &#8220;news&#8221; (courtesy of China Briefing) at this juncture, given what has developed over the last week. The U.S. Congress did indeed approve the bailout/rescue package and we&#8217;ve seen over the last couple of days just how interconnected the world financial system is (if there was ever any doubt). Most of Asia is not insulated from the woes on the other side of the Pacific &#8212; as 8-10% single-day market losses clearly demonstrate.</p>
<p>While it is true that China is somewhat protected from market shocks, let&#8217;s not forget that it essentially faces the same problem as most of Asia in that its growth is export-led. Devonshire completely glosses over this fact, exaggerating the extent to which China is a consumption-driven economy. Sure, consumerism is growing in leaps and bounds, but the actual growth generated from domestic sales pales in comparison to that generated from exports. The balance of payments problem clearly supports this fact. Consider that a behemoth like Wal-Mart exclusively sources in China. If Americans are forced to wean themselves  from their addiction to cheap consumer goods, things could get scary for China, too, in a hurry. (This fear is largely what drove the markets down in Japan, for example, except that Japan&#8217;s wares &#8212; electronics, cars, etc. &#8212; are a step up on the value chain.) There is no way the (nascent) demand in emerging markets could make up for a loss of this scale.</p>
<p>Lastly, I think it is a mistake to forget about China&#8217;s structural problems, which are real, and not likely to be resolved anytime soon. I was never a disciple of Gordon Chang&#8217;s, even when his work was more relevant than it is now, but on the other hand, many of the ills that existed a decade ago are alive and well today. To their credit, China&#8217;s present leaders are not in denial about these challenges; but will they be successful in resolving them?</p>
<p>Viewing the world economy as a zero-sum game (America loses, China wins) is, I think, naive to say the least.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Respinger</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23292</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Respinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html#comment-23292</guid>
		<description>Energy Intensity is the real question here. China will find it difficult to continue to lower its energy intensity as its economy grows more affluent and the higher its energy intensity, the more of an impact higher oil prices will have on the economy.

You also need to look at the declining margins in the manufacturing sector which indicate that a small bump up in the oil price, combined with a global economic downtown and fewer exports could tip a lot of factories over the edge resulting in a Chinese recession.

It's hard to say what is going to happen as this crisis goes on, but it certainly doesn't seem like betting on the Chinese economy in the short term is a sure bet. In the medium and long term BRIC is definitely where the growth of the world is headed, but short term China's role a the world's factory may just end up creating more volatility and a steeper downturn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Energy Intensity is the real question here. China will find it difficult to continue to lower its energy intensity as its economy grows more affluent and the higher its energy intensity, the more of an impact higher oil prices will have on the economy.</p>
<p>You also need to look at the declining margins in the manufacturing sector which indicate that a small bump up in the oil price, combined with a global economic downtown and fewer exports could tip a lot of factories over the edge resulting in a Chinese recession.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard to say what is going to happen as this crisis goes on, but it certainly doesn&#8217;t seem like betting on the Chinese economy in the short term is a sure bet. In the medium and long term BRIC is definitely where the growth of the world is headed, but short term China&#8217;s role a the world&#8217;s factory may just end up creating more volatility and a steeper downturn.</p>
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		<title>By: HB Ooi</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23290</link>
		<dc:creator>HB Ooi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 11:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html#comment-23290</guid>
		<description>The wheel of fortune keeps turning.
England used to be an empire where the sun never sets.
The USA has had its hay days and now its time for China/Asia to take over.
Perhaps its written in the stars. Wonder what the Nostradamus said.
HB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wheel of fortune keeps turning.<br />
England used to be an empire where the sun never sets.<br />
The USA has had its hay days and now its time for China/Asia to take over.<br />
Perhaps its written in the stars. Wonder what the Nostradamus said.<br />
HB</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor White</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23277</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html#comment-23277</guid>
		<description>The Senate now votes before the Asian markets reopen on Monday. Your right though the States will still take a battering. Asia is the place to be, or the BRIC economies if you want any decent growth of ROI the next 3-4 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Senate now votes before the Asian markets reopen on Monday. Your right though the States will still take a battering. Asia is the place to be, or the BRIC economies if you want any decent growth of ROI the next 3-4 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Macy</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23275</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Macy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You've also got an economy growing at 7-8% next year and that is where money and returns will be made. You're not going to get any decent growth out of the States for a while until they can get to grips with their financial problems. Investment will get into China at 7% returns rather than the US at less than zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve also got an economy growing at 7-8% next year and that is where money and returns will be made. You&#8217;re not going to get any decent growth out of the States for a while until they can get to grips with their financial problems. Investment will get into China at 7% returns rather than the US at less than zero.</p>
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		<title>By: Mags</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/09/30/why-china-will-boom-during-the-2009-great-american-depression.html/comment-page-1#comment-23274</link>
		<dc:creator>Mags</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 15:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>How symbolic that Chinese astronauts took a spacewalk while the US Treasury Secretary is on his knees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How symbolic that Chinese astronauts took a spacewalk while the US Treasury Secretary is on his knees.</p>
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