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	<title>Comments on: The Next Big Thing: Chinese Democracy</title>
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		<title>By: Gary Shamus</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21786</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Shamus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 05:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21786</guid>
		<description>Some observations - &quot;I read this piece and now trying to get my dropped jaws back into position&quot; - How many jaws does this guy have? Also on Churchill, you can find several quotes from him on democracy, and I can see both attributed. Whichever version you choose, they mean the same so there&#039;s no need to be pedantic about it - the issue here is over Chinese getting more democratic. Chris&#039;s theory of the rise of  Chinese elite ruling families strikes a chord as being a possibility, as does Nick Polimeni&#039;s quote on democracy just being an administration system. And with 1.3 billion people, China certainly needs that in place more than anyone else. But it&#039;ll be different from the US model. Let&#039;s coin the phrase &quot;Democracy with Chinese characteristics&quot; shall we?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some observations &#8211; &#8220;I read this piece and now trying to get my dropped jaws back into position&#8221; &#8211; How many jaws does this guy have? Also on Churchill, you can find several quotes from him on democracy, and I can see both attributed. Whichever version you choose, they mean the same so there&#8217;s no need to be pedantic about it &#8211; the issue here is over Chinese getting more democratic. Chris&#8217;s theory of the rise of  Chinese elite ruling families strikes a chord as being a possibility, as does Nick Polimeni&#8217;s quote on democracy just being an administration system. And with 1.3 billion people, China certainly needs that in place more than anyone else. But it&#8217;ll be different from the US model. Let&#8217;s coin the phrase &#8220;Democracy with Chinese characteristics&#8221; shall we?</p>
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		<title>By: Aiko Sakawara</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21766</link>
		<dc:creator>Aiko Sakawara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21766</guid>
		<description>I was amazed to see China won the most gold medals in the world. Even in the overall medal count, China was not far from the U.S., the only super power in the world now. 

It is the validation that China is the super power in waiting. I expect the power of the U.S. will decline as it has already stretched beyond its means by trying to dominate the world and enforce its mono-dementional value and thinking. But once the world loses its trust in the U.S. it will fall from its throne.

On the other hand, China is a rising star. So the future belongs to China. There will be a good chance, China will become the number one super power in the future world.

When it happens, China and her people will have the honour and duty of leading the world, and will be responsible of the well being of the world. I believe in the future that the people in the world should be able to choose freely a country where they live based upon their liking of socio-economic and cultural taste because there is no single right way. Clearly so-called democratic system has many merits, but also it has many demerits as well. And the same can be said about a totalitarian system.

Some people like me cherish freedom and adventure, and can tolerate risks. For some others safety and security is more important than freedom. That is one of the reasons two-third of Americans don&#039;t own their passport and many Americans stick to American food like hamburger and coke.

China is in the advantageous position of being able to learn from all the industrialized nations, create a new political, economic and social system, and present it to the world as a viable alternative for the future.

What China is doing now is quite right since there is no other alternative at this time other than the total chaos and civil war. China does not want to follow the footsteps of the Soviet Union. I think it is wise. China should take its own time to think, experiment and develop its future, including democracy.

Due to the unfortunate and tragic recent history, China has just got up on her feet. Now China will need to learn how to walk, then to run in order to lead the world and fulfil her honour and duty.
 
As a Bohemian who was born and raised in Japan, but chose to live in Canada and became Canadian, and now have chosen to live in China, I know and understand the world better than most of the people in China. That&#039;s why I believe I can make contribution to the world by helping the China and Chinese people through you and state my beliefs in what is happening. China will go more democratic, just as America becomes less so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was amazed to see China won the most gold medals in the world. Even in the overall medal count, China was not far from the U.S., the only super power in the world now. </p>
<p>It is the validation that China is the super power in waiting. I expect the power of the U.S. will decline as it has already stretched beyond its means by trying to dominate the world and enforce its mono-dementional value and thinking. But once the world loses its trust in the U.S. it will fall from its throne.</p>
<p>On the other hand, China is a rising star. So the future belongs to China. There will be a good chance, China will become the number one super power in the future world.</p>
<p>When it happens, China and her people will have the honour and duty of leading the world, and will be responsible of the well being of the world. I believe in the future that the people in the world should be able to choose freely a country where they live based upon their liking of socio-economic and cultural taste because there is no single right way. Clearly so-called democratic system has many merits, but also it has many demerits as well. And the same can be said about a totalitarian system.</p>
<p>Some people like me cherish freedom and adventure, and can tolerate risks. For some others safety and security is more important than freedom. That is one of the reasons two-third of Americans don&#8217;t own their passport and many Americans stick to American food like hamburger and coke.</p>
<p>China is in the advantageous position of being able to learn from all the industrialized nations, create a new political, economic and social system, and present it to the world as a viable alternative for the future.</p>
<p>What China is doing now is quite right since there is no other alternative at this time other than the total chaos and civil war. China does not want to follow the footsteps of the Soviet Union. I think it is wise. China should take its own time to think, experiment and develop its future, including democracy.</p>
<p>Due to the unfortunate and tragic recent history, China has just got up on her feet. Now China will need to learn how to walk, then to run in order to lead the world and fulfil her honour and duty.</p>
<p>As a Bohemian who was born and raised in Japan, but chose to live in Canada and became Canadian, and now have chosen to live in China, I know and understand the world better than most of the people in China. That&#8217;s why I believe I can make contribution to the world by helping the China and Chinese people through you and state my beliefs in what is happening. China will go more democratic, just as America becomes less so.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurentius Metaal</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21755</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurentius Metaal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 03:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21755</guid>
		<description>The fact that businesspeople can become party members is indeed something rather controversial and what Chris described might be possible with big money infiltrating the party and its governing institutions. I think the party leadership has taken a good look at what happened in Russia under Jeltsin and what they will manage is not the move to have corrupt businesspeople take power but the move to keep them away from power. 

Yang Bin was a prime example, the flower bulb proclaimed millionaire who wanted to become a governor for the North Korean free trade border town and had aspirations to become a politician in the North East. He is still in Jail and unlikely to come out soon. They took the Al Capone route to convict him: &quot;tax fraud&quot;.

Corrupt politicians all need one thing: to get their money out of China and dissappear after a business trip abroad. If they amass a billion they&#039;ll be happy to sit abroad with ten million in the end. There is a whole service industry to get their money out of the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that businesspeople can become party members is indeed something rather controversial and what Chris described might be possible with big money infiltrating the party and its governing institutions. I think the party leadership has taken a good look at what happened in Russia under Jeltsin and what they will manage is not the move to have corrupt businesspeople take power but the move to keep them away from power. </p>
<p>Yang Bin was a prime example, the flower bulb proclaimed millionaire who wanted to become a governor for the North Korean free trade border town and had aspirations to become a politician in the North East. He is still in Jail and unlikely to come out soon. They took the Al Capone route to convict him: &#8220;tax fraud&#8221;.</p>
<p>Corrupt politicians all need one thing: to get their money out of China and dissappear after a business trip abroad. If they amass a billion they&#8217;ll be happy to sit abroad with ten million in the end. There is a whole service industry to get their money out of the country.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick Polimeni</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21530</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick Polimeni</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21530</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been conducting a forum on Democracy with an international group, at a site called &quot;Internations&quot; which is a watering hole for expats all over the world. 

The consensus about the real meaning of democracy revolves around not so much the form and structure of government, as it does around personal rights. After all, we may use the word democracy, but we&#039;re talking about personal freedoms to lead our lives without serious government or other external interferences. 

The &quot;degree&quot; of democracy is measured by the degree of personal freedoms. In fact, to a person, every one in the forum is aware that there really isn&#039;t a complete democracy anywhere, when speaking of governmental structure. 

So when you speak of Democracy is coming to China, even if the model is identical to that of the US, it&#039;s just a mechanical process of administration, and may amount to nothing really meaningful. Think of how the Chinese now celebrate Christmas... There is a parallel of how Chinese mimic the west!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been conducting a forum on Democracy with an international group, at a site called &#8220;Internations&#8221; which is a watering hole for expats all over the world. </p>
<p>The consensus about the real meaning of democracy revolves around not so much the form and structure of government, as it does around personal rights. After all, we may use the word democracy, but we&#8217;re talking about personal freedoms to lead our lives without serious government or other external interferences. </p>
<p>The &#8220;degree&#8221; of democracy is measured by the degree of personal freedoms. In fact, to a person, every one in the forum is aware that there really isn&#8217;t a complete democracy anywhere, when speaking of governmental structure. </p>
<p>So when you speak of Democracy is coming to China, even if the model is identical to that of the US, it&#8217;s just a mechanical process of administration, and may amount to nothing really meaningful. Think of how the Chinese now celebrate Christmas&#8230; There is a parallel of how Chinese mimic the west!</p>
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		<title>By: Spongebob Dictatorpants</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21444</link>
		<dc:creator>Spongebob Dictatorpants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21444</guid>
		<description>“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”
AT LEAST properly quote churchill.
I second metaal&#039;s thoughts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”<br />
AT LEAST properly quote churchill.<br />
I second metaal&#8217;s thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21400</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Devonshire-Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 06:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21400</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your comments guys. Actually I don&#039;t think there will be a sudden lurch one way or another Sam; I believe the whole process is being managed - as best it can under the Chinese political system. In many ways, I see that most of the creation of a powerful dynasty of aligned &#039;ruling families&#039; has largely taken place, albeit with a few minor changes to make. The process as far as I see it is already underway, and continuing. It is a highly delicate balance though, and the stakes are high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your comments guys. Actually I don&#8217;t think there will be a sudden lurch one way or another Sam; I believe the whole process is being managed &#8211; as best it can under the Chinese political system. In many ways, I see that most of the creation of a powerful dynasty of aligned &#8216;ruling families&#8217; has largely taken place, albeit with a few minor changes to make. The process as far as I see it is already underway, and continuing. It is a highly delicate balance though, and the stakes are high.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Crispin</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21185</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Crispin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21185</guid>
		<description>Chris, the bigger question is that in order to progress from where it is today, China needs to confront the historical baggage of Mao. I don&#039;t see political change until that step is taken but to take that step exposes the current rulers to the risk of setting off an uncontrollable chain of events. Who is the man brave enough to take that step?
Must be time for a beer or two.
Sam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, the bigger question is that in order to progress from where it is today, China needs to confront the historical baggage of Mao. I don&#8217;t see political change until that step is taken but to take that step exposes the current rulers to the risk of setting off an uncontrollable chain of events. Who is the man brave enough to take that step?<br />
Must be time for a beer or two.<br />
Sam</p>
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		<title>By: Laurentius Metaal</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-chinese-democracy.html/comment-page-1#comment-21173</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurentius Metaal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/27/the-next-big-thing-in-china-moving-towards-democracy.html#comment-21173</guid>
		<description>I read this piece and now trying to get my dropped jaws back into position, the following is the piece de resistance:

&quot;Why would you want to steal a billion dollars? That sort of cash makes no sense, unless you intend to launch a family political dynasty. When the current contenders have been able to muster enough political clout behind them under the current one party system in China, then you’ll see a gradual move to democracy.&quot;

What you described above is called a regime of kleptomaniacs, The sort of &quot;democracy&quot; that looks like what Mr. Mugabe is running in Zimbabwe. Shall we just stick with the one-party system? That still seems to work well 99% of the time and is very much what one might call a managed democracy. Based on a system of selections on the basis of merit like in the good old imperial days with grassroots elections for the lower officials. 

As all politics is local but policies are central remember?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read this piece and now trying to get my dropped jaws back into position, the following is the piece de resistance:</p>
<p>&#8220;Why would you want to steal a billion dollars? That sort of cash makes no sense, unless you intend to launch a family political dynasty. When the current contenders have been able to muster enough political clout behind them under the current one party system in China, then you’ll see a gradual move to democracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>What you described above is called a regime of kleptomaniacs, The sort of &#8220;democracy&#8221; that looks like what Mr. Mugabe is running in Zimbabwe. Shall we just stick with the one-party system? That still seems to work well 99% of the time and is very much what one might call a managed democracy. Based on a system of selections on the basis of merit like in the good old imperial days with grassroots elections for the lower officials. </p>
<p>As all politics is local but policies are central remember?</p>
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