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	<title>Comments on: Criminal Record Certificates to be Required for China Work Visas</title>
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	<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html</link>
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		<title>By: Morgan Colmer</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-23449</link>
		<dc:creator>Morgan Colmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-23449</guid>
		<description>I can confirm that in Shenzhen at least, a maximum of 3 Z visa&#039;s for foreign nationals will be issued for every 10 Chinese employees at a Representative office.  I had 6 Chinese employees, and this accordingly meant that  I could not be issued with any Z visa&#039;s at all.  This included myself!  As I was the legal responsible person for the office it left me with something of a problem.  
I have now closed the office, de-registered the RO and lost the staff.  I have moved the office to HK.  

The net result for China: 
1) 6 employees that were getting far better wages than they would see at any local company are now without jobs.  AT least 4 of them are still unemployed 3 months later.
2) Lost TAX revenue to the PRC (admittedly not that much).
3) A (still) empty office in FuTian and hence a landlord without additional pocket money, and yet more lost TAX revenues against his income.

Come of guys, get it together!  We might be foreigners but the only consequence we have in the PRC is generally positive to all of you!

Additional note, for details on RO in Shenzhen, contact FESCO.  These guys know it all when it comes to these matters and they also (somehow) get good insights into what is likely to change in a 1 to 3 month timescale.  As my account manager at FESCO put it when I closed shop, &quot;Where are all the foreigners going?...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can confirm that in Shenzhen at least, a maximum of 3 Z visa&#8217;s for foreign nationals will be issued for every 10 Chinese employees at a Representative office.  I had 6 Chinese employees, and this accordingly meant that  I could not be issued with any Z visa&#8217;s at all.  This included myself!  As I was the legal responsible person for the office it left me with something of a problem.<br />
I have now closed the office, de-registered the RO and lost the staff.  I have moved the office to HK.  </p>
<p>The net result for China:<br />
1) 6 employees that were getting far better wages than they would see at any local company are now without jobs.  AT least 4 of them are still unemployed 3 months later.<br />
2) Lost TAX revenue to the PRC (admittedly not that much).<br />
3) A (still) empty office in FuTian and hence a landlord without additional pocket money, and yet more lost TAX revenues against his income.</p>
<p>Come of guys, get it together!  We might be foreigners but the only consequence we have in the PRC is generally positive to all of you!</p>
<p>Additional note, for details on RO in Shenzhen, contact FESCO.  These guys know it all when it comes to these matters and they also (somehow) get good insights into what is likely to change in a 1 to 3 month timescale.  As my account manager at FESCO put it when I closed shop, &#8220;Where are all the foreigners going?&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Druckportal</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-23410</link>
		<dc:creator>Druckportal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 10:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-23410</guid>
		<description>I can confirm. This regulation is already in place in areas like Kunshan.

Thats it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can confirm. This regulation is already in place in areas like Kunshan.</p>
<p>Thats it.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Heller</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-23317</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Heller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-23317</guid>
		<description>Our company employs 10 Chinese and 7 foreigners in our office in Shenzhen.  Our company is a start-up company, and we only have 1 employee in the US.  Previously our foreign employees worked in the company under an L Business visa.  However, based on the new visa restrictions, and overall clamping down on foreigners in China, we wanted to legitimize our operation and issue our employees Z work visas.  Now we are being told that we can only register 2 foreigners for Z visas.  When we were first registering for the Z visa the company that we hired to do our visa said that there were no restrictions to the amount of people that we hired.  Apparently there is some formula that an RO company can hire 3 foreigners for every 10 Chinese.  Our company inquired as to whether this was just a Shenzhen rule, and if there was any way around this rule, and in classic Chinese government style, there is absolutely nobody that knows anything or is willing to answer our questions.  I want to know if anyone knows of a company that can help us, or if they know whether the laws regarding foreign employees is different in other cities.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our company employs 10 Chinese and 7 foreigners in our office in Shenzhen.  Our company is a start-up company, and we only have 1 employee in the US.  Previously our foreign employees worked in the company under an L Business visa.  However, based on the new visa restrictions, and overall clamping down on foreigners in China, we wanted to legitimize our operation and issue our employees Z work visas.  Now we are being told that we can only register 2 foreigners for Z visas.  When we were first registering for the Z visa the company that we hired to do our visa said that there were no restrictions to the amount of people that we hired.  Apparently there is some formula that an RO company can hire 3 foreigners for every 10 Chinese.  Our company inquired as to whether this was just a Shenzhen rule, and if there was any way around this rule, and in classic Chinese government style, there is absolutely nobody that knows anything or is willing to answer our questions.  I want to know if anyone knows of a company that can help us, or if they know whether the laws regarding foreign employees is different in other cities.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-23252</link>
		<dc:creator>Supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 07:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-23252</guid>
		<description>Actually, the FCO notarization may not be required for the work/residence permit unless you are applying for the almost mythical &quot;Green Card&quot;. 

In Shenzhen (at least) you will need another new letter (this from a good source): 

- A report produced by a local head hunting company, stipulating that the company has done a thorough search for two months (advertisement, etc) and has not found the right candidate for the applied position in China, thus is hiring a  foreign candidate.

Ridiculous!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the FCO notarization may not be required for the work/residence permit unless you are applying for the almost mythical &#8220;Green Card&#8221;. </p>
<p>In Shenzhen (at least) you will need another new letter (this from a good source): </p>
<p>- A report produced by a local head hunting company, stipulating that the company has done a thorough search for two months (advertisement, etc) and has not found the right candidate for the applied position in China, thus is hiring a  foreign candidate.</p>
<p>Ridiculous!</p>
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		<title>By: Supercat</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-23250</link>
		<dc:creator>Supercat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 02:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-23250</guid>
		<description>Getting the Police Certificate/Criminal Background Check Subject Access Form in the UK is difficult because police stations regionally have different forms with different names and getting them online is very hard as many county force websites have no links to their online forms.  (NOTE - the UK embassy will give you the wrong form!),  You also have to get it notarised at the FCO. After it has been notarised it must then be taken to the Chinese Embassy for their notarisation. 

The bugger is that while the police force and the FCO will post this to you, the Chinese Embassy in London has no such postal service available - has to be delivered and collected by hand. OK if you live in London; pain in the arse if you live anywhere else.

Take a look online at forums about getting these Police Certificates and you begin to understand how difficult it is to get them online. I downloaded 3 different forms - completed them all and when I got to the police station in my home town they told me the forms were all wrong. They did not have any more of the correct forms so they had one faxed and gave me a copy of the fax. No centralized administration even though the certificates are returned from the same place - I cannot fully comprehend how ridiculous the process is.

One way or another the China authorities have to realize that these increasing restrictions are pushing them backward and threatening their chances to maintain the pace of development. I don&#039;t mind the police check as I have nothing to hide, but it&#039;s just such a long and tiring process for Brits to go through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Getting the Police Certificate/Criminal Background Check Subject Access Form in the UK is difficult because police stations regionally have different forms with different names and getting them online is very hard as many county force websites have no links to their online forms.  (NOTE &#8211; the UK embassy will give you the wrong form!),  You also have to get it notarised at the FCO. After it has been notarised it must then be taken to the Chinese Embassy for their notarisation. </p>
<p>The bugger is that while the police force and the FCO will post this to you, the Chinese Embassy in London has no such postal service available &#8211; has to be delivered and collected by hand. OK if you live in London; pain in the arse if you live anywhere else.</p>
<p>Take a look online at forums about getting these Police Certificates and you begin to understand how difficult it is to get them online. I downloaded 3 different forms &#8211; completed them all and when I got to the police station in my home town they told me the forms were all wrong. They did not have any more of the correct forms so they had one faxed and gave me a copy of the fax. No centralized administration even though the certificates are returned from the same place &#8211; I cannot fully comprehend how ridiculous the process is.</p>
<p>One way or another the China authorities have to realize that these increasing restrictions are pushing them backward and threatening their chances to maintain the pace of development. I don&#8217;t mind the police check as I have nothing to hide, but it&#8217;s just such a long and tiring process for Brits to go through.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-21948</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Devonshire-Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 14:42:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-21948</guid>
		<description>There is more on this subject and current international protocols for obtaining such documentation here: 
http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/29/china%e2%80%99s-immigration-administration-out-of-whack-with-international-norms.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is more on this subject and current international protocols for obtaining such documentation here:<br />
<a href="http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/29/china%e2%80%99s-immigration-administration-out-of-whack-with-international-norms.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/29/china%e2%80%99s-immigration-administration-out-of-whack-with-international-norms.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Devonshire-Ellis</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-21381</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Devonshire-Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-21381</guid>
		<description>More updates on this: We have just heard that the Shenzhen Labor Bureau are now asking that applicants for Work Visas are being asked for a &quot;No Criminal Record Certificate&quot; from a Police Station from their home country, and for that document to be authenticated by the Chinese Embassy in that country.

This can be problematic, and is a ruling based on the Chinese system of issuing &quot;no criminal record certificates&quot; - which is in place in China. Under the Chinese system, Chinese nationals can apply for such a document in their home town police station (records are kept under the local hukou system). However, in countries such as the UK or US for example, such records are centralised and the local Police station will not have any administrative procedures in place to (a) process the certificate (b) issue it, and (c) if if they did, would have to issue such a document to be valid on a national basis. That could take a considerable amount of time, let alone a trip specifically back to your home country to execute. 

We will keep you further informed as to developments on this important issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More updates on this: We have just heard that the Shenzhen Labor Bureau are now asking that applicants for Work Visas are being asked for a &#8220;No Criminal Record Certificate&#8221; from a Police Station from their home country, and for that document to be authenticated by the Chinese Embassy in that country.</p>
<p>This can be problematic, and is a ruling based on the Chinese system of issuing &#8220;no criminal record certificates&#8221; &#8211; which is in place in China. Under the Chinese system, Chinese nationals can apply for such a document in their home town police station (records are kept under the local hukou system). However, in countries such as the UK or US for example, such records are centralised and the local Police station will not have any administrative procedures in place to (a) process the certificate (b) issue it, and (c) if if they did, would have to issue such a document to be valid on a national basis. That could take a considerable amount of time, let alone a trip specifically back to your home country to execute. </p>
<p>We will keep you further informed as to developments on this important issue.</p>
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		<title>By: China Journal : Best of the China Blogs: August 29</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-21373</link>
		<dc:creator>China Journal : Best of the China Blogs: August 29</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-21373</guid>
		<description>[...] a thing of the past. Not so fast &#8212; PSB sources are saying that work visas will soon require more cumbersome paperwork, not less. [China [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a thing of the past. Not so fast &#8212; PSB sources are saying that work visas will soon require more cumbersome paperwork, not less. [China [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Romain Guerel</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-21171</link>
		<dc:creator>Romain Guerel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I can confirm. This regulation is already in place in areas like Kunshan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can confirm. This regulation is already in place in areas like Kunshan.</p>
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		<title>By: C. M.</title>
		<link>http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html/comment-page-1#comment-21169</link>
		<dc:creator>C. M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2008/08/28/criminal-record-certificates-to-be-required-for-china-work-visas.html#comment-21169</guid>
		<description>Interesting.  Sounds like the screws are tightening every so slowly...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  Sounds like the screws are tightening every so slowly&#8230;</p>
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